Jus Rus & Robb Talk Menzingers, Counting Crows, The Gaslight Anthem & More

Robb: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the number one emo podcast on the planet, Emo Kids Anonymous. I'm your host, Rob Lafoon. Unfortunately, my co-host Amanda couldn't be here with me today. She's at, uh, the Warped Tour in Washington, D.C. Unfortunately, my, uh, our producer Catherine couldn't be here because she's also in fucking D.C., so I'm alone here Like Steven goddamn Glansberg. But we got a good little episode for you, okay? Today I'm talking to Justin Russell, aka Jus Rus, a singer-songwriter based out of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, my favorite city in America. We had a great conversation. Justin's someone that I've, you know, kind of been buddies with for a few months. We seem to like all of the same fucking bands, so I knew this would be a good time. We talk about the Menzingers, Bruce Springsteen, the Gaslight Anthem, bleachers, everything I love. As you all know, I am, I am spiritually New Jerseyan at heart, and this was a great time. And he's got some, some cool songs releasing over the next couple months. They should have been an EP. We talk about why they're not an EP and it's just singles, amongst other things. But all that being said, before we do that, I need you to do me a favor. I need you to subscribe to our show, please. It would mean a lot if you could hit that button, leave us a comment, whatever you're watching it on. I don't care what comment it is. All that shit really does help us a lot. Please Please like this video, you know, please, I'm begging you. I fucking, I look like a pathetic fucking asshole just begging you to fucking subscribe to our show, but I'm going to keep doing it.

Robb: Now, with all that being said, as always, this episode is brought to you by Brotege. Brotege is the all-in-one face serum. It'll take your face from fucky to fresh. And you go over to Brotege.com, you enter email kids@check.it, you get your first little tube of this shit for $10. Okay. Only $10. Emo kids at checkout. After that, you go back, you enter ROBB40, R-O-B-B-4-0. At checkout, you get 40% off everything forever. Not only does Protege have face stuff now, we're also in the chapstick game. Okay, lip balm. Different than a bomb. Different things. Now, with all that being said, here's my interview with Jus Rus. I'm never loud, never rude, but no one ever asked me to do drugs in the bathroom.

Robb: Yeah, you gotta have props. It's like part of the fucking thing with the internet. You gotta have like things behind you. Like, cuz the deal is, I think, identifiable when you're scrolling, they need to be able to judge you by the, like that you gotta have like your stuff behind you so they know what you like, so they know if they like you kind of thing. Yeah.

Jus Rus: Oh, I think so. 100%. Yeah. And I've been working with something like that recently where like, right. I, I'm, I'm not nearly as. Yeah. And I'm not like nearly as up with it as, as you are. You're great at it, but I, I need to, uh, I've been thinking about, I've been posting, it's been kind of doing well, just going, I go on a run every day past the same place and I'm like, what if I just set up the phone, made the caption something and just made the song one of my songs? So trying to do that, it's doing okay. I'm still digging around.

Robb: I feel like it's this weird, weird world now where like, Like, you know, back in my day when I was like, we never had like TikTok, you know? So it's like, I feel like it's like so much easier to be in a band now, but it's also like 5,000 fucking times harder because like you can get anyone to find your shit if you know how to use the internet. But it's like, do you know how to use it? And even if you know, like no one really knows how to use the fucking internet. Like you say, I'm more up with it. I'm not fucking— I don't know what the fuck I'm like. I'm just fucking like everyone's just kind of guessing, you know?

Jus Rus: Everyone, nobody has any fucking clue. Yeah.

Robb: And just it's weird to me, like certain bands seem to get really lucky and then there's other ones where I'm like, they're really great and like they're funny and shit like that. And it's just like, I'm like, I, it's like luck. I don't fucking know. I don't know how this works.

Jus Rus: It's, it's weird though, man. Like I have a band, uh, one of my friends, uh, is in a band. I don't think he'll care if I use the name Waxjaw here in Philly. And they rock and they don't have big followings on any platforms, but they sell out all of their shows. And so this fall they're touring Europe. So it's like, that's the, it's, it's a weird thing.

Robb: That's the thing too. Yeah, some of the bands, like, I've— we've had, like, I remember, like, especially when the show first started, like, we'd sometimes, like, get excited and be like, oh, this band has, like, 100-something thousand monthly listeners kind of thing, and, like, 50,000 followers. Like, that must mean they're so big. That must mean thousands of people are gonna listen. It's like, no, they've won the algorithm. Like, people are following them. It doesn't— like, they don't convert all the time, you know? Like, a lot of the times those big artists with, like, the big following, like, those are our least watched episodes because, like, a lot of the times the fan bases aren't real. They're treating them like— like, they're treating you like a Kardashian, you know? Like, you're a thing on their phone that entertains them. You're not like a, a musical entity.

Jus Rus: You're scratching the same bitch every time. Yeah. And it's— and then, then there's like a flip side of it. Like, I, I don't think it's good advice to tell somebody— like, like some people have told me, like, just play as many shows as possible. And I don't think that's good advice, especially if you're a singer-songwriter who, like, most of your guys in your band are mercenaries. So it's like way too expensive to do that.

Robb: Yeah, that's like the old— I feel like that's really the old timey ideas. Like, yeah, you gotta just play. You gotta get out there, you know, play anywhere. And like, it's good. Like, if you like, yeah, if you got like a lot of opportunities, like, okay, you singer-songwriter, you can go do a bunch of shows solo and you can like, and it's cool if like, oh, I'm popping in here and I'm doing a quick one, but it's like, okay, you want me to promote this for a week and then go promote that other one for a week? And it's like, people are just like, yeah, everyone, I'll see you next time you're in town, you know? Which is gonna be in 2 weeks.

Jus Rus: Yep.

Robb: Anyways, exactly. Uh, I, I, we skip right past the introduction. Justin, uh, introduce yourself to these people.

Jus Rus: Hey there, my name is, uh, Justin Russell. I go by Jus Rus. Um, which was a name I just picked and stuck with it cuz it was my nickname in high school.

Robb: You didn't pick that name. Your parents picked that name. That's literally your name basically.

Jus Rus: Yeah. It's just an abbreviation of my name, but I, I, But it's, uh, I'm, I'm kind of finding a new challenge to just like stick with it and like white knuckle it and see what happens. Even though I'm like, ah, gosh, when I hear someone introduce me as like Juice Russ, I'm like, I gotta just stick with it, man. Just keep pushing it. And, um, I'm a singer-songwriter based in Philly.

Robb: Why do you think it's Juice?

Jus Rus: Because I feel like if you would see it outside of knowing my name is Justin, you might say that if you didn't know my first name was Justin.

Robb: Maybe, I guess.

Jus Rus: Yeah.

Robb: Yeah, I guess.

Jus Rus: Yeah.

Robb: I'm cheating from the beginning.

Jus Rus: Right, so I'm a singer-songwriter in Philadelphia. I've been doing it for about 3 years now. I've always wanted to do it. I've just started here really, and I have a new— was going to be an EP, but I just have songs coming out every month until September, and then getting into the studio before then to just keep it going. And so I'm just a singer-songwriter. I play mainly what I've been describing it as, which is great for you, Rob, is a guy who really wants to be in a punk band but is like way too sappy, which I think is like a lot of our collective taste is.

Robb: No, that really sums it up right there is like, yeah, you think you're fucking— you think you're Joey Ramone, but you're Adam Duritz, basically. It's like, yeah, that's, that's, that's what I would, you know, call me old-fashioned, but like, that's you make the brand of rock music that I like, I fancy the most where like, like we just talked with Andrew Sacher, uh, uh, he wrote the emo revival book and it's like, there's a lot of these bands. It's like, like I never like, like Menzingers, Pop, like where it's like, I never considered them emo at all. And they're not emo, but like, I didn't even really realize there was this tie-in. 'Cause to me it's just like, these are just bands. They're just doing Springsteen.

Jus Rus: Oh, absolutely. And I'm from the '90s.

Robb: Frank Turner, Gaslight Anthem, like everything like that that I know we both like, like it's, Yeah, they're all just kind of doing Springsteen and The Replacements.

Jus Rus: Oh, 100%. And, uh, yeah, and Goo Goo Dolls was like the Greta Van Fleet to The Replacements for a long time too. If Greta Van Fleet is to Led Zeppelin, what The Goo Goo Dolls was to The Replacements for the early albums.

Robb: Yes, at the very early, early, early Goo Goo Dolls. Yeah, when fucking— when Goo still had some vocals and stuff. Robbie.

Jus Rus: Yep. And, uh, and we were— I've talked about this too, about what are those bands. And, uh, and I recorded a bunch of like guys in that scene. So like Tim Haas, Dave's, uh, brother. And so Mark Maysfield, who's like played with like Laura Jane Grace. And, um, you know, my buddy plays with Tom May from the Menzingers in their post-cover band. And we kind of just decided like it's— it just is rock and roll. Like it's just what—

Robb: that's what rock and roll— like that's— that's rock music. Like when I think of rock music, like the Menzingers are more Like just, that's rock and roll. Like we're doing 4 chords here.

Jus Rus: Yeah.

Robb: We're singing songs that would sound really good when you're driving on a freeway.

Jus Rus: Yep. 100%.

Robb: And they're about fucking getting outta town or losing something or something like, it's like, it's fucking Roy Orbison basically is what they're doing.

Jus Rus: Oh, absolutely. And that was always my scene. And I was always a little bit, I always felt kind of left out cuz I was a little bit too young for it. So I'm 31 now. So when I was in high school. I was like, uh, so my music chemically in my brain, 2010, yeah. So in 2011, like that was when Frank was on the come up, Against Me! just hit the mainstream, Rise Against was heavily in the mainstream at that time. And those, that was like my jam. And then, uh, then I discovered, uh, Gaslight and Menzingers in like 2012, and then that was like That was it. I was like, I felt like I was my musical home, but I couldn't like drink at any of these shows.

Robb: Very stereotypically Philadelphian too, I feel like.

Jus Rus: Absolutely. Yeah. And, and our, all of our stuff derives from, uh, Bruce. So like, it's, uh, you know, every time Frank's here, he plays Thunder Road as his encore song. So, and then it was, it was really cool. And then Mark Maysfield, who produced my last EP, has a His Wurlitzer piano is actually in the Bruce Springsteen movie when they do the Born to Run scene. So that's pretty cool. So there's so many Bruce tie-ins. Heck.

Robb: Here. In the new movie?

Jus Rus: In the new movie.

Robb: Yeah. When they're in the bedroom?

Jus Rus: No, when they go to, when it shows them playing Born to Run at the—

Robb: Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, it does the clip of them like they're doing like the live performance simulation thing? Yeah, they're playing it. Yeah. Okay.

Jus Rus: Okay. Yeah.

Robb: Shit.

Jus Rus: I think that's what the world is saying.

Robb: Did you like the movie?

Jus Rus: No, I didn't like the movie. Did you like the movie?

Robb: I, I, I think I, I think the like Bruce fan in me that is just excited for any sort of like any, you know, like I, yeah. Yeah. And I think compared to like other biopics, I think like, cuz I watched the Queen one recently. Yeah. And I was like, this is the worst movie I've ever seen in my fucking life. Like, that's not how it's like, oh, we're chilling here and it's just— no, no, Queen, like the band.

Jus Rus: Oh, that, oh, that movie's bad too. Yeah. Sorry. You said biopic and like, oh yeah, no, it's Queen Elizabeth biopic. It's fucking great. Yeah. Using the, using the article the before it, I was like, oh, I don't know.

Robb: No, no. Yeah, no, the, the, the, yeah, the Freddie film where it's just like, it's so like, it's so painfully like on the nose where it's like, oh, We're in the studio now. Like, we're going to make this up here. Like, this is— it's this old-timey idea of like all songs are made up in a fucking $40,000-a-day studio. Like, oh yeah, yeah, I don't buy it. And especially like with, with— it's just like you're doing— like when you watch a movie, like a normal movie you go watch, like it kind of like takes place in a span of like a week or something, you know what I mean? Or a night or a couple of days. Like when a movie's, you know, like the plot, like movie going over like 30, 40 years, it's just like, oh, and now this happened and now they wrote Fat Bottom Girls and now Freddie's kind of sick. Like it's just like, it's too much. Whereas I like, I like that in the, in the Bruce one, it's like there, this is like a snapshot at a period. So you could actually like dive into it. It's not just like, oh, Bruce got signed, now I'm rich.

Jus Rus: Yeah.

Robb: Now Clarence is dead, you know?

Jus Rus: Yeah. And I, and I liked how I think the, that's more of the trend of biopics and I'm I am first in line to see The Replacements biopic cuz I, I just finished reading the book this winter and that was like one of my favorite books ever. If you ever read that, they're making a Replacements biopic. Yeah. The guy from, uh, they sold the rights to the book. The guy from, uh, Naked Brothers Band who was in Hereditary is gonna play Paul is the casting.

Robb: Shit.

Jus Rus: Yeah. It's been in production. I didn't know that apparently for years. But anyway, back to the, but we'll, we'll go back to that. But back to the Bruce movie and the Queen movie. The Queen movie's also wonky because I heard that they had to make some kind of deal where the band didn't want it to be a Freddie biopic. Yeah. So they had to all be in it equally. And then that led to some wonky editing for it.

Robb: So originally what I, I'm under the impression originally Sacha Baron Cohen was gonna be Freddie and it was gonna be like a real look at Freddie's life. 'Cause I mean, Freddie was a rock star. He, he. Lived fucking hard and he fucking— he died from a terrible disease. Like, it's a tragic story. And like, there's layers to this shit, you know what I mean? Like, it's not a fucking, you know, cookie-cutter happy-go-lucky thing. But then Queen— but which means same thing. Like, you know, you need— Queen needs to sign off on it. And Queen's still a touring band, you know, like they're still trying to sell their tickets. They're like, well, you know, we got to kind of get people excited to see Queen again. So like, it just ends up being like a fucking Queen ad.

Jus Rus: Yeah. And I totally get that. I actually never really finished it cuz I, I hear so many bad things about it. The Bruce movie I didn't like because I think that it's very Bruce in 2026. And I really liked it as a movie and I really enjoyed some of the parts of it. Two things I didn't like about it is it felt like it's about the making of Nebraska, but it feels like they sort of understood that Nebraska's kind of a boring album to most people. So they kind of gloss over, like, like you don't really hear a lot of the songs in full. And then, um, no. And then also I think that I, I don't like Bruce, and this is Bruce and it's his art and it's his life, but I feel like he was overinvolved and he decided the macro arc of my art is that you should go to therapy. And I don't, I don't think that that's what it was. I think that's what he thinks it is now.

Robb: So that's just my, there's some like Bruce hindsight there of like, like you said, 2026 multimillionaire smiling face of the Democratic Party, Bruce Springsteen.

Jus Rus: Right, right. Exactly.

Robb: As opposed to like very pissed off 1983 Bruce Springsteen.

Jus Rus: Yeah. It's like, it's like it could be like this moment of Nebraska, which is in the book. Deliver Me from Nowhere is like this old rustic America kind of dying in the Reagan years, and it really like spooked him. And that's kind of where this imagery of like a serial killer and like the electric chair and like these dying communities came from, and why and how he kind of birthed it.

Robb: And like, there's not really a lot of that in the movie, and I get it, but Yeah, no, and I, I think there's like, for even being a snapshot, I feel like they still do, like, you know, at the beginning of Walk Hard, the Dewey Cox movie, he's like, not now. Dewey Cox needs to think about his entire life before he performs. Like, it still kind of felt like that where it's just like, but I'm Bruce Springsteen kind of thing. Like, what's Bruce Springsteen gonna do next? And they're like, Bruce had a hole in his floor and that hole in the floor is a metaphor for everything. And it's like, You don't have to tell us what the fucking metaphor is. Like, we can figure it out.

Jus Rus: Like, yeah, fuck, dude. Totally, totally. But yeah, and I, and I think there'll be a sequel.

Robb: Is there going to be sequel? Are they going to do Born in the USA now?

Jus Rus: I'm just joking. That'd be really fun though. I, I would love that.

Robb: They should do Born in the USA and it should end, it should end with him doing the Tunnel of Love tour and then calling each one of the E Street Band members individually to fucking fire them. Like, I want to see, like, reenact the part where you fire the band for fucking 15 years, bro. Like, let's do that again.

Jus Rus: Like, you know, we'll do a trilogy.

Robb: Let me see, let me see Max Weinberg playing with Conan O'Brien.

Jus Rus: Yeah. And then the, in the trilogy, and then the redemption one is like 9/11 happens and the guy comes up to him in the car and he's like, yeah, all right, something Bruce. And then that's the third movie. And then they all come back.

Robb: It's gotta be a Fucking forget that. Forget that the E Street Band got together like 2 years before that. Have it be like Bruce is watching 9/11 happen from New Jersey. He can see it from his home in New Jersey somehow. Like, it's very close. And, and yeah, he gets a call from Mike Appel or whatever that's like, you got to bring the people together.

Jus Rus: Yeah, it's a great trilogy. And we're going to do his Villador, do his, his Bob Dylan one. Oh, but dude, yeah, but then to tie it into kind of like, like, uh, I did just record not in Asbury, but with the Asbury scene, which has kind of evolved in an interesting way. It's really just a big family. And Bruce himself will talk, like, people from the Bouncing Souls will talk about like seeing Bruce like show up, um, like at coffee shops and everybody just kind of sees him around. Um, we were a little bit far from the beach. We were in, um, Matteo Di Benedetti, who is the drummer for Flycatcher, most notably. And I saw them play last night in Allentown. And I, that was cool because it was them, Spanish Love Songs, and Armor for Sleep. And like Matteo brought me backstage to hang out and I was, I'm so into Spanish Love Songs. I really wanted to like say hi to them, but then I'm just hanging out with Matteo watching the Knicks game. And I was like, this is actually pretty cool. I'm just gonna stay and do this backstage at this concert. I don't, and I don't know Armor for Suit. Yeah. So I never was a fan of them. So that was what I ended up, uh, doing. But it was in his studio in Howell, New Jersey. Um, which is, it was in a construction warehouse. It was this little shed and it was really cold. It was when the snow came down and it didn't melt, and it was me, him. Mark Maysfield, who's played in a whole bunch of bands. Sean Tobin, he's a producer for most notably Grandpa Was a Liberal, if you know that song.

Robb: I was gonna say, I know Sean, I know the Tobin name.

Jus Rus: Yeah, yeah. And so it was cool to like, it's kind of weird as an artist, but it is kind of cool that all these guys are in a bunch of touring bands and know a bunch of touring bands and know each other. And also kind of people who are in the same orbit as people I grew up listening to, like Against Me! and Frank and Dave Hoss. And that was kind of my, uh, impetus. The funny story that I, I told you about earlier, which I'll tell now, is I wanted to write songs and produce songs like, um, the music I grew up listening to. And I was like, who is a person who is in that scene who I can directly reach out to? And I thought, Tim Hoss. He's a Philly guy. I see him around. Like I'll reach out to him. And I was like, do you know anyone, uh, who can make— this is the funny story— I said, do you know anyone who can make music like you or your uncles? Because I thought Dave was his uncle, and now apparently I'm like—

Robb: I kind of thought that when you mentioned Tim Haas earlier, I was kind of confused. I was thinking, I'm like, is this a brother I've never heard of? I'm like, it could also be like his kid or something, maybe.

Jus Rus: Like, but his— he just started putting out albums in 2020, and like Dave's been putting out albums like since 2006.

Robb: That's why I was surprised. I looked him up on Apple Music and I'm like, that's not Dave Hoss. Yeah.

Jus Rus: And so apparently I'm a— that's the running joke in the band now is like Dave is Tim's uncle because I said that to him and everybody thought it was like the funniest thing in the touring band that I, that, that I called him his uncle. So then he was just like, what if, what if I just did it with like my friends? So that was what, how we ended up doing that. And Tim played lead guitar.

Robb: I was gonna say, you ask him like, how do you, do you know anyone that can make music like you? I feel like he is the answer there.

Jus Rus: Like, yeah, but I didn't know. He's like, he's like, I'm not a producer, but I'd love to be involved. Let me ask my friend Mark and Mateo who like have a studio and have been producers before. So that's how they all got involved. And it was, it was cool. It was. It was grueling, man. It was, it was 4 11 to 11 days. We did 4 songs. The 5th song is the one I just put out, which is actually was recorded in Austin 2 years ago, but it felt like it fit in the slate.

Robb: Oh, shit.

Jus Rus: So yeah. Yeah.

Robb: What made you switch from— because like when we talked like earlier, it was the songs are going to come out on the EP and then you switched it to like a single strategy. What went behind that?

Jus Rus: I don't, I, I think I would just, uh, if I'm taking myself seriously, it's singles. And it's, it's kind of a sad thing to admit because I think a couple of these don't have single potential, but I think it's the way that you keep the Spotify algorithm going is just by putting out singles continuously. And then when the fifth one comes out, it'll be the last one out, but it'll become the EP at that point. And then the leisure hour strategy. Oh yeah. So they call it—

Robb: no, that's what I call it because that's what they did last year. They'd release a new single and like, I remember like I was like, oh, they put on EP and then the next month they'd put out another song and there's a new EP and it's just the 5 songs from the one before, but now it's 6 songs. I could be like a new EP each time, but it's just adding the one song to the thing and I'm like, You guys are gaming the system here, but like it, it works.

Jus Rus: Yeah, that's, that's even smarter cuz I, I was thinking about the 6th song I could put on there and record it before the fall. Uh, so that's just what I've, I always get hyped up and I'm like, oh, I'll do like an album cuz I don't know, like people like Orville Peck just did that. They just put out an album. There's a couple bands that'll show up on my Discover Weekly who just do full albums from the start and I'm like, that's so ballsy and cool, but. And I'm like, but it's really— will this work for you? Yeah.

Robb: As, as like a music nerd too, like, like we're talking about Bruce Springsteen here. We're like, rock, like rock and roll, like is centered around the album. Like I want a full fucking record. Like as a musician, you're like, well, the singles are singles. They're like orphan songs. An EP even isn't complete. Like I want to make an album. Like that's, that's a home, you know? But it's like, once you, especially if you're not doing like 50,000, 30,000 monthly listeners kind of thing, like. You put out an album or you put out a full EP, 3 weeks later, like, what do you got for us now? Kind of thing. Like, and then, and then you're just promoting your old stuff. Even, even when it's 3 months later, which 3 months later is not a long period of time at all for releasing music, but like 3 months later is like fucking 3 years in internet time. It's like, hey, what? Like, I've, I've seen clips with this song fucking 50 times, bro. Like, what else?

Jus Rus: I, I agree. And you just got to keep it. Keep it rolling. So that, I think I'm just learning and trying to make my output strong and thinking about the next thing. It's hard, man. And I'm trying to get a full head around it and see what works, what doesn't work. So yeah.

Robb: Did you just, was this your first, were you in bands before this or was this just like your first project?

Jus Rus: I was in bands in like high school and college and then I had such a bad experience in college that I, I gave up on it. Um, so I, my arc is, I felt really, I really wanted to do it and I, and some people have still commented that I'm like this. There's this, I, I still don't feel like I'm fully myself artistically and there's kind of a, this thing over top of me that's kind of like this protective layer, I suppose. And I was conscious of that when, uh, 2022, I decided to move to Austin, Texas. Be in the scene there, write and perform away from everybody who knew me. And I didn't wanna like play in front of people who knew me cuz I was too embarrassed. And do it on a certain level, I still kind of am. Uh, and I'm still trying to shake that and I don't know where that comes from.

Robb: And, uh, no, I don't know if you hear that a lot cuz you interview a lot of guys, especially, especially with like With like, like it goes both ways, especially when you're like performing under like, even though it's not your name, like it's close enough to your name where it's just like, if Jus Rus sucks, that means Justin Russell sucks, you know?

Jus Rus: Yeah.

Robb: Whereas like if your band's, you're like, well, there's 4 other people here. Maybe you just don't like the fucking vocalist. Maybe you just don't like the drummer. Maybe that, you know, like there's, there's even like, I remember like the first times I ever did like acoustic shows, like by myself, like I, like I realized I would be like looking over because like you start like security blanketing yourself with people kind of thing.

Jus Rus: And like, yeah.

Robb: And especially like in your hometown, like, yeah, there's, cause like as an artist too, like, or any sort of thing where you're putting yourself out there, even like doing the show kind of thing, it's like, oh, you're promoting this thing. And all of a sudden it's like, it's like the common running joke where it's like, oh, the people that you're actually friends with will never support you as much as like strangers kind of thing.

Jus Rus: Mm-hmm.

Robb: And like to be like in your hometown or anywhere close to that and like doing stuff like that, like, yeah, you, you'll get like, the homies supporting you or this or that, but like, it could feel weird and you can't like really become the artist because all these people know you. So like, if you start like fucking getting too into it, they're like, motherfucker, like, I remember when you cried in fucking 5th grade because you spilled your orange soda, you know, like, shut the fuck up.

Jus Rus: Yeah, exactly. It's like, what is this? I remember like, yeah, and I got like bullied as a kid a lot because I I think there was like, I wanted to be expressive and then I was easily rage baited by people who called me like, you know, like call me names. And I like, and then like real fodder for people who are not good kids. And so, and I, I don't know if like part of that lingered, but I was just really shy and I, and then like, I think that my parents kind of thought I was going through some kind of weird shit. And so then when I put out the first EP and they kind of realized I was competent was the first time they sort of like talked to me about it. Like, oh, this is pretty cool. You know, like that's not bad. Like some good stuff in there. And then I moved back. Yeah, it was nice. It was cool. And then I moved back and you're right about protective layers when you're playing with a band because I love playing with a band. That's like my favorite thing in the world is to perform with a band. Yeah. So it's easier. It's the best. So much easier. I remember I did a show in Austin, which was a guy livestreaming people, and it was just you and an acoustic guitar and a little audience, and it was like a livestream. And that was the most nervous I ever was for a show.

Robb: So yeah, fuck yeah, it's too— it's too out in the open. Like, you fuck something up too, like, it's so obvious.

Jus Rus: Oh yeah. Yeah. But you can, you can roll with it. And I'm actually trying to write more songs now that Uh, it can just be me and a guitar and it doesn't need to be— yeah, don't need big arrangements. Because I think it's— I think that's kind of the Frank Turner thing in a way. And, and I think that he kind of took a lot of it on his own shoulders and, and wanted to, uh, grow that way as well as with the band. Um, yeah, so then like, so, so things have been going well logistics-wise.

Robb: Like, you want to, you want to book a tour, you want to book it, you want to book anything, like you need to center it around like 3 to 5 other people. Whereas like, yeah, Frank, like famously was just doing show after show after show. It's like, it's a lot easier when it's just you in a car or something like that. Like you can hitchhike if it's just you, you know?

Jus Rus: Oh, 100%. Yeah. And that was kind of my, yeah, I made a, I made a post on Instagram a little while ago about like when the, it's like Love Iron Songs album anniversary. And I said, you know, happy birthday to the album that ruined my life. 'Cause I listened to Frank when I was on that, that album when I was 16 and I was like, there's nothing. And honestly, Rob, I had the same thought last night sitting in that green room with Flycatcher. I was like, they're— this is like the best. They're, they're sitting in this room just like, like sipping beers, like watching the Knicks game, and then like they have 2 and a half months of shows to look forward to where they're like out together playing these shows at like medium-sized venues. I'm like, that's so cool, man. That's, that's awesome. You know, it's, I don't know.

Robb: I just like says it. What made you want to like do this? What made you want to do this like solo then to this degree? Like as opposed to like making an official like full band?

Jus Rus: I don't, I don't think you walk in like both lines. I think I, I sort of have one right now. Um, I have two guys in my band who are, uh, kind of, I know are like ride or dies cuz we were friends before the band started. And I could pay them nothing. And then two of the other guys are, um, good enough musicians, prolific enough in the area that like they have just a bunch of other projects going on. Um, but I think that I, I wanted to center it in a band and, and I don't think that, uh, it's weird because I— it's a great question. I never really thought about it too much because I guess I never really wanted to be, uh, I would love to be in a band where we like share responsibilities and do things, but I don't think I found anybody who has quite the same, uh, taste that I do. I also think that I would love to structure a band around me. You know what, cut all this out. I would love to do it if the opportunity came up, if someone was like, I think you're a good enough songwriter And, but I wanna write guitar parts, I wanna write piano parts, I wanna write drum parts. That would be cool. That would be great. But, um, I just found that I, I just wanted to push it and write stuff by myself and not really have to wait for anybody else. But I hear about people who are in bands and their process and it just sounds wonderful. Sounds great. It sounds like they're having a good time.

Robb: I was gonna say like at some, at some point it feels like almost like there's like a, like you don't have to worry about, like you said, like compromising and stuff like that. But then you, I think like you ever seen Superbad?

Jus Rus: Yeah.

Robb: I think of like, you're like Steven Glansberg over there. Like you're just kind of fucked. Like you're watching everyone else have fun kind of thing. Like you're like, fuck, those guys are in bands. Like that looks like so much fun. Like the fuckers are having the best time together. And you're like, I'm like, I'm isolated. Like I gotta find these guys. But the dynamic is slightly different than you're like, well, fuck. Mm-hmm.

Jus Rus: Well, I'd love to. Yeah. And I had someone, Kevin Walkman, who's a pretty successful singer-songwriter from here. We were, he was over co-writing last week and I was having a great time and I was like, this is pretty sick. And I'd love to have more of these more frequently and it feels less lonely and more collaborative. And I guess like I'm still pretty new here. I've only been back in the city for like a year. So that could happen. I could, that could work out.

Robb: So you're, yeah. So you went to Austin for like 2 years and then came back? Yeah.

Jus Rus: Uh, closer to 3 years, but then, and then came back.

Robb: Yeah.

Jus Rus: Okay. So, but I, I could, I was in, that would be cool.

Robb: I was in Philly, uh, I was in Philly exactly a year ago next month. And when I was there, yeah, I had the worst time of my life. Uh, but when I got there, I got there, like I took a red, I, oh, it was so bad. I was so anti-Philly for like 6 months. I've warmed up now, but oh, it was fuck Philadelphia for so long.

Jus Rus: Tell me, tell me why.

Robb: I fly in, I took a red-eye, my buddy's getting married on Friday afternoon, and I fly in like in the morning, and I take the train to my other buddy's Airbnb, and it was right when the garbage strike was happening.

Jus Rus: Oh my God.

Robb: So it's 5 AM, it's 5 AM, and I'm fucking, I'm wandering around, just everything smells like trash, and I haven't slept yet, and like my buddy's getting married, and like I'm hurrying up because No, it probably wasn't 5. By this point it's like 7 AM or it's, it's, but I know, and like in an, I haven't slept yet and me and Amanda, we're recording an episode like an hour later. It's like, okay, when I get to the Airbnb, we'll record tomorrow's episode. I'll do it on this trip.

Jus Rus: Fuck it.

Robb: We're going hard. It's hot as shit. It's, it's, it's fucking muggy. We don't have like humidity like that here. It's fucking awful. Buddy gets married and then, and then some like drama happened. My, my daughter's mom starts creating this big headache. And after my buddy's wedding, I'm like arguing on the phone with her. And I was like pacing around and we're outside the Airbnb because we came back and my buddies went to sleep and I paced around so hard that I lost— I didn't know where I was and I was wandering around and I'm, I'm pretty fucking drunk at this point because it's open bar and I was with my buddies and I'm walking around Philly in like this cutoff Britney Spears shirt with the sleeves off and these Pierce the Veil booty shorts that say Dollface on the back. So I'm walking around Philly, very hot, half drunk. Yeah. And then like my phone dies and I have no idea how to get back. And I'm, it's the middle and I'm like, I'm chasing down people on the street. Like, can you help me find out where our Airbnb is? They're like, what's the street? I'm like, I don't know if you open your phone and I see a map, I could like recognize it.

Jus Rus: Yeah. Oh my God. Which, what a nightmare.

Robb: Strange guy at 2:00 AM coming up to you on the street. They didn't, yeah, they didn't really care for that.

Jus Rus: Yeah. Oh, I'm so sorry.

Robb: But, uh, yeah, I've warmed up on it.

Jus Rus: Where was the wedding? Do you remember?

Robb: I'm ready to come back.

Jus Rus: Okay, cool. Ah, I don't remember. Where was the wedding?

Robb: It was, it was a nice place. It, it was at, uh, it was at this very nice Jewish community center.

Jus Rus: Um, I don't remember. And you're in San Diego, right?

Robb: Exactly. But it was right around this area. I, 'cause I, I wa— what's that?

Jus Rus: You're in, you're in San Diego, right?

Robb: I'm in LA now. Yeah.

Jus Rus: But San Diego originally. Oh, okay. Okay. Got it. Okay.

Robb: So I just met a guy from San Diego. His wife is His wife is from Philly, so I don't, yeah, I don't remember where it was, but I went and visited him a few years before that during the pandemic and Philly was cool then, but this day was bad. Oh, but then I get to the airport. I get to the airport when I flew, when I flew from LA to Philly, they didn't make me take my shoes off. So I flew back. I was wearing Toms with no socks and, and they make me take my shoes off. And as I'm going through like the detector thing, I'm like, haha, like I'm barefoot at the Philly airport. That's so gross, huh? And the lady's like, Sir, step aside. I'm like, well, what's going on? She's like, she's like, you set off the— there's some metal in your buttocks or your groin. And as she's saying that, a dude's walking up putting a glove on. He's like, you want to do this? You want to do this in a private room or do you want to do it here? And I'm like, oh, I'm going to get— I'm going to get fucking— yeah, this dude's going to fucking finger my butt like shit. Okay. And so like the guy's like having to like rub me like I'm getting molested at the airport. And I— that finishes up. I tell him obviously I want to do it in public because if we went in a private room, I feel like that's a little little more intimate. Uh, I finish up and I text my fellas. I'm just like, boys, like, I think I just— I think I just got essayed at the Philly airport.

Jus Rus: Like, shit.

Robb: Uh, oh yeah, and then my flight delayed. I didn't leave until like 11 PM. Yeah, yeah.

Jus Rus: Oh my God. I would have gone in the private thing. That would have sounds like a lot more fun to me. At least get something out of it. Yeah, let's get more of a thrill. Yeah, right?

Robb: He was sweet. Yeah, he, he was a nice guy, you know? I didn't know his name.

Jus Rus: It was head on over to the Popeyes first and go grab some, grab me some of those fries.

Robb: Right. It was my first anonymous male hookup. Yeah. I wasn't ready.

Jus Rus: You seem like you're telling it in, in, uh, uh, looking back, uh, trying to be funny. I'm trying, I'm not, I hope I'm not making too light of it.

Robb: Oh no. Even when it was happening, it was funny because like, it's, I'm like, even, even worst case, they did like fucking cavity search me. It's just like, oh yeah, I'm not gonna die. I know I'm not hiding any, which is funny cuz like 90% of the time if I'm on an airplane, I hope the TSA isn't watching this. Normally I will be flying with weed. Like this is the one time I'm flying like completely safe and I'm like, you can search me all you fucking want. Like I'm fine. Like unless you pull up some old tweets where I threaten the president, like I'm good.

Jus Rus: Yeah. I, I think that also there's like, that's very, you can travel with like THC gummies now. Apparently. So it is, it's crazy.

Robb: You can fly out of LAX with up to an, up to an ounce in your bag. It says like on the LAX website basically where it's like, they basically say in fancy wording, like we're looking for bombs and bricks of cocaine. Be mindful of where you're flying to basically. Like, yeah. Don't be packing that shit when you're flying to Saudi Arabia or fucking Indiana or some, you know.

Jus Rus: Yeah. Totally fair. No, but who, who, who else from the Philly scene have you talked to?

Robb: We had Latchkey Kids on recently. They're from Philly, but Jersey originally. They also— they— okay. Tom May was on their record. He produced some songs. Kyle Pulley is their manager. Oh, wow. Besides that, from Philly, I swear we've had— there's, there's so many. I feel like so many, like, we get like South Jersey bands where I like they're kind of Philadelphia at heart, you know?

Jus Rus: Yeah, that is our— it's like the North Jersey people are kind of New York at heart, but they, they think they— I think they have more of a culture up there. They wouldn't say that. No offense to South Jersey people, but I, but I think that there's like— it's the, it's the farms. I think I would love to— it's so interesting because I would have, uh, I was actually thinking about reaching out to Tom May for, uh, for some stuff. Uh, who's their manager? Blaschke Kids?

Robb: Kyle Pulley.

Jus Rus: Kyle Pulley. Okay.

Robb: Yeah, he's a producer as well. I know. I think he worked with a couple other bands we had on. We had someone, we had someone on very recently actually that also recorded in Philly.

Jus Rus: I— Yeah, there's a lot of cool studios.

Robb: What it is, is we have, we have a lot of bands. Everyone's getting their shit produced in Philly right now is what it is. They're getting it mixed and mastered in Philly because of Will Yip.

Jus Rus: Oh, I know. Well, yeah, yeah, he's great. He worked a lot with the Menzingers.

Robb: That's the move. Yeah. Yeah. And he did the new Menzingers record. He did the new Harrison Gordon record. My friends in Dear Cincinnati are doing a record this month. I probably shouldn't talk about, but they're— I know they're doing it at his studio and it's like, fuck, this guy's busy as shit.

Jus Rus: Yeah. And I think did War on Drugs stuff too. Is that right? Yeah.

Robb: Yeah.

Jus Rus: Yep.

Robb: Speaking of drugs, uh, why, why has no one ever asked to do drugs with you in the bathroom? Like not even once?

Jus Rus: Oh man. No, really? Well, no, no.

Robb: I thought, I thought that was a great song, like a, a choice for a song right there. Like it, it, my interpretation of it is there's like an extra level of loneliness here where it's like, It's like the Bruce, you know, it's like, there's gotta be, there's something happening somewhere. You know, I just don't know where, you know, where it is. Like Bruce dancing. It's the same thing. You're like, I know they're having fun in there and I'm over here. Why am I like, that's the vibe I got from it.

Jus Rus: Oh, absolutely. And, and this distinction of like, I'm not, not wanted. Like I, you're, you're wanted constantly. And like, I have so many people in my life who I love and who You know, include me in things, but not this thing specifically. And then I wanted to, uh, there's actually a, a clip of that Toronto mayor who did coke, who my guitar player sent it to me and he was like, Rob Ford, Rob Ford, where he's saying like, if no one asked to do drugs with you, it's not my fault. That's your fault. You're just no fun. And I was like, I need to make this into a like CapCut thing. And I, I've been trying to like. Figure out a way to do it, but the only clip I can find of it has music in the background. I'm trying to like make it a— I go from positive—

Robb: I'm positive.

Jus Rus: Oh yeah, and do like a, uh, like a hype reel of myself, like, like a, an edit of me where it's like it's just him saying that and it just cuts to a bunch of clips of me performing. Sick. I was like, with the song in the background, that's kind of like what I was, what I was thinking, and I Yeah, I, I loved that song when I wrote it. I thought it was weird enough to be like something that people would, uh, like grab onto. That specific situation has happened like a couple times and there are a couple friends that I have. Weirdly, one of them after our most recent show came up to me, one of the friends who that's based on, and was like, yeah, that sounds like your life. And I was like, yeah, it's funny.

Robb: I mentioned going I mentioned going to Philly for a wedding, but I feel like my version of this is like, people will ask me to do jars in the bathroom, but nobody will invite me to their weddings really. Like, it's like the, it's like, it's like, yeah, same thing.

Jus Rus: Like I have all these people around, I have all these friends. Yeah.

Robb: But I'm not really like the wedding friend. Like I have all, like I've been to like 3 or 4 weddings in my life. Like I have like, you know, like, like I'm like periphery friend a lot, right? I don't make that cut. Plus like I don't have like a wife, so it's not like I'm, you know, like I'm, I'm, I'm the dirtbag friend showing up to the wedding basically.

Jus Rus: Wow. You do your own, uh, like the opposite level. I'm, I'm actually the opposite level. I've, yeah, I've been the, uh, the not the only non-family member groomsmen twice. So it's just like, but it really comes from that place of like, yeah, it comes from the place of like, it says it in the song. Like, like I can like listen to people, people like lean on me for like emotional issues. And, and I listen, I, I. That's who I am and I love myself to some degree like everybody else. And I'm glad that that's like been my avenue into who I am to people. Um, but you kind of do wish that you have a little bit of that, of that other thing sometimes.

Robb: So, right. It's gotta even it out, you know, it's all about being a balanced adult.

Jus Rus: Totally. And, and, uh, yeah. And then my, my, my grandparents who I saw yesterday too, like made it clear that they didn't like that song at all. So, but, uh, but it's like, I'm like, it's not about drugs, Graham. It's about being chosen. That's, that's what it actually is about.

Robb: But you're like, I just wanna be asked.

Jus Rus: I just wanna be asked, do you wanna be a part of the party? It's always fun to be part of the party. Yeah.

Robb: That's one of the, one of the many reasons I'm happy that, uh, my grandparents and most the loved ones in my life are dead. So I don't have to face those moments right there.

Jus Rus: Like, yeah, you have to. And, and you have to, uh, you know, um, face it like a, I heard someone say once like that you should approach your life in that way. You should approach your life like that's already happened. Um, and up here in the Northeast too, we kind of have a culture of that not being the case. And like, I think there's a sense of like, uh, you know, being tied here, um, and like being tied to the people around you, which I think is lovely and wonderful, but it can like lead to second-guessing yourself and artistic expression or like, you know, not wanting to run away cuz that's weird and people don't do that.

Robb: And you know, what is the deal over there? Why is it like that there? Cause it's, I feel like it's, it's a different, it's a different fucking country than out here. Like even when I was out there, like taking the train from Philly to New York, like it just, I feel like I'm like, I feel like I was in a Bruce Springsteen song where it's like, oh, there's these junkyards and it kind of seems like certain neighborhoods are kind of like, like they got passed by almost like with like as industries change and shit like that.

Jus Rus: Yeah. I have many, many takes about this, but I think it's because you, like the people who settled where in, who settled the West are people who already left. And there are people who have like, see you. So the, the genes that are in you are from people who felt a need to go already. And who, who did not stay, who were like, I got, I'm going, like, I'm, I'm going, I'm doing it. Like, that's where you come from.

Robb: This is fucking fantastic. 'Cause I saw something like, I saw something like a week ago like that where it was basically like, it was talking about Europeans and it's like, you have to understand the Europeans that are still in Europe were the ones that as the new world was developed, they were the ones that were like, nah, I'm cool. I'll stay here.

Jus Rus: Yes. Yeah, exactly. And kind of, it's like I saw this crazy map recently where I'm Irish and I, I saw this map of like, uh, I used to think everyone was either Irish or Italian, but I saw a map that said, here's the counties in America where more than 10% of people are Irish or Italian. And it's just the East Coast and like a dot in Chicago and like a dot in, uh, yeah, we don't have that shit out here, bro.

Robb: We got no Irish, no Italian out here.

Jus Rus: And, and I, and I think that it's, it's like opposite demographics. And they set up their communities. It's, it's The Sopranos, you know, they set up their communities and then they just like stay and it's like, this is where we are. It's, Mare of Easttown is where I grew up. If you watch Mare of Easttown, it's like, and where I grew up in Delaware County.

Robb: Okay. Shit.

Jus Rus: I've never seen that. Oh, it's great. And that's, it's, it does a good job of, uh, showing it well. Have you seen Tusk with Mark Ruffalo? Yes. That, that's also set in Delaware County. Yeah. So that's, that's also same thing. Yeah. Damn. Mm-hmm.

Robb: I was just gonna say, I also think too, there's a specific thing, like more so with New Jersey, but I feel like with like that, that part of Pennsylvania as well. I, I heard Jack Antonoff talk about it where it's like when you grow up outside of New York City and probably the same thing for San Diego too, where it's like you grow up outside of this like cultural, like where everything's happening. It's sim— it's the drugs in the bathroom thing. It's like, why isn't this happening here?

Jus Rus: Kinda.

Robb: And you have like an extra chip on your shoulder. Like a lot of the great bands that come out of LA or outta New York, A lot of them are nepo babies and shit like that. You know what I mean? Like it's, mm-hmm, it's a different world. And like you're in these working class, like very, and, and it's so like densely populated and you're just, you're in suburbia, but from suburbia you can literally see like the greatest city on the fucking planet. And you're just, you get this like fucking chip on your shoulder and like you makes you work harder.

Jus Rus: Oh, I, I think that's true for the New Jersey people. A hundred percent. And everyone who I've met has like that. Chip to some degree. Absolutely. I think that they, the New Jersey people have more New York envy than I think we have. But I think that there is a section of like, but I think Delaware County is similar to that, which is like people always kind of gravitate back to there and the city is like a cultural center. But I guess for a lot of people it becomes hard to navigate and I've never heard that particular take, but that's— but I know that Jack does a lot of like places people in, like, like he talks a lot about, like there's several Wawa references on the new record, which is like kind of, which kind of nuts. And I, I think that his stuff is great. Yeah. I, I think I was just trying there to find like my own ties to that statement, but I couldn't.

Robb: The greatest.

Jus Rus: I think he's the greatest currently. He's the greatest right now. Yeah. I would say. Yeah, and, uh, we think— but that's a great take by him. Yeah. Also, I think of that I wanted to talk to you about, because I think we're running out of time, is also, uh, I guess to like touch on the bands we're like nerdy about, uh, is like— yes, I just— because I wanted to say this on this podcast because I just had a thought about saying it, uh, was I do think that pound for pound, album for album, I think that Counting Crows are the best when it's like just material. It's not a lot of material. They didn't put out a lot of material, but the material they did put out, you can put against any other series of albums, I think.

Robb: Wow. Sorry, I just got a wild text right now. Um, big lord, random. Um, Counting Crows, I think like—

Jus Rus: Not that shocking of a take.

Robb: It's one of those bands like—

Jus Rus: The text was not to distract you.

Robb: No. No, well, it was a very big text about a very big guest coming on the show that I had no idea.

Jus Rus: Really cool. Really cool.

Robb: Jesus. But Counting— I think with the single, like when like the singles get so big, especially like as time— like as I was— yeah, I mean, you would have fucking like been like a baby. I'm like 5 years old when Counting Crows like start popping off and it's like, I feel like people talk about August and Everything After, like everyone loves it. But I think when a band gets a single and especially like Mr. Jones is like kind of like silly in ways, it feels like.

Jus Rus: Yeah.

Robb: That they like start getting written off. So they're one same thing I'd say with Third Eye Blind, same kind of thing where like you're like you hear Semi-Charm Life so much, you're like, oh, this is fun. But like there's no substance to it. And then like you go listen to these records and you're like, oh shit.

Jus Rus: Like, absolutely. Yeah, totally agree with that.

Robb: I don't think—

Jus Rus: and I just think that Everyone brings up— didn't put out a lot.

Robb: Everyone brings up Third Eye Blind on here. No one's ever brought up Counting Crows, so thank you.

Jus Rus: And, and it's— again, I don't, I don't think they're a world-beating band by any stretch, but I, I think that like the few records they have are so good. Um, and I guess there are a couple bands like that too. Uh, Who else is in that category of like, I've only put out like 3 or 4 albums, but they're all, they're all great.

Robb: I think they're in there. I think Third Eye Blind, if you stopped them in 2009, they're in there. That's a lot of those '90s bands. The problem is there is they were on these record deals, so they had to put out the records and then they kept releasing records after that. You know, like, I think that's part of why Like in my head there's only 3 Oasis albums, but they put out like 3 more after that. Like in the 2000s, it's just like, I, I, like, I didn't make it there, you know? Like I'm pretty set on these ones.

Jus Rus: Yeah. I, I, I agree with that too. I, I, I'm sure I could find like a list of this on a Reddit or something. I'm sure people have talked about this, but, uh, right. Kind of to tie it back into another. Because you've been talking a lot about Bruce and we talk about like, do you think that Jack Antonoff is the actual— and Bleachers is like the Springsteen era officially? Because there's like, even though there's dozens of bands who could compete for that title. Yeah.

Robb: No, it's, it's, it's fucking— it's Jack. I think there's other— I think, I think it was supposed to be the Gaslight Anthem.

Jus Rus: Yeah.

Robb: And I think the Gaslight Anthem dropped the ball because they didn't— they shied away from the comparison so hard. Like when the Gaslight Anthem really starts popping off after 59 Sound, like, is it— it's like 2008 or 9, like Bruce brings them on stage and they're that— they're the Bruce band. And I think Brian Fallon really ran away from that. And even like by the time they put out— I remember there's this like article that me and my buddy Tyler, the one that got married in Philly, we've watched like 10 times because it's like right before Gaslight goes on a hiatus and he's just the most miserable fucking cunt you've ever seen in your life.

Jus Rus: He's just like, I think I've seen that.

Robb: Yeah, it's like a Red Bull or something like that. And he's talking shit on like Husker Du or The Replacements or something. He's just like, yeah, they're not very good. And it's like, you don't believe that, Ryan, you don't fucking believe that. You're just, you're an— you're like angry. And then they went away.

Jus Rus: He did a whole statement where they had— I think they lost the juice because it, and then they had a New York show where there was like a Bruce chant before their encore and they just like, I think they, they played Bob O'Reilly and then left. And then he put out a statement after that said like, don't chant for Bruce cuz he won't be there. And then. In the effort to run away, Get Hurt got fucking destroyed, uh, by all the critics. Because, well, they tried to make a— tried to make a— this is like a weird album. It wasn't even really that weird, but they— but, and the critics hated it. Um, and then they went on hiatus, and I think they didn't really like each other all that much. And I've heard from people now that have been in the scene that like they're all hotheads. Too, like everyone in that band. So I think they did drop the ball for sure.

Robb: I believe— I, I think so. And I think, I think alcoholism started playing into it. I think Brian had a bit of a drinking problem.

Jus Rus: Mm-hmm. And Brian's so fun now, and he's like a dad, and his solo records are great, and they came back. And dude, I saw them in Austin, and I left because there was a lightning storm, but it was like in their reunion tour, and we went, and Joyce Manor opened. And like, and the fucking ground was shaking when they came on and they opened with American Slang. And I, it was like, oh my God. Like it was the best they had ever sounded. Then there was Lightning Storm and there was a hiatus. And then I was too drunk. I had to go home. They came back an hour and a half later to finish the show, but it was still, it was like too late for me. Yeah. But anyway, no. And then I, I think it's cool now. Yeah.

Robb: I, I think like. Yeah, they do get hurt, and I think they try— they're like, we're not a Bruce— like, we're, we're— same thing we're talking about rock bands. Like, Gaslight Anthem are like a rock band at their core. They're like, we're— they, they, they're like, we love Pearl Jam as much as we love Bruce. And they went in that, like, especially with like the single, you know, it feels like it's in this, uh, this very like Pearl Jam-esque, like they're kind of moving in that direction. And, and the album just felt Even in hindsight, like, there's a lot of people that love Get Hurt, and I think there's a lot of really good songs on it. I think the best song on Get Hurt— and we were just in this fucked up era in the 2010s where streaming wasn't a thing like it is now, and people are still buying songs. So the best song on Get Hurt was the one that was the iTunes exclusive, Have Mercy. So you didn't even get it on your fucking record if you bought the record. You had to get it on— you had to have Apple, and Apple Music wasn't a thing. So like, you didn't have it on Spotify. And I think if I'm not mistaken, it was, it was longer too, right?

Jus Rus: Yeah, it was longer. And the Baba O'Reilly cover was also just on iTunes. I remember that was, and that was awesome. Oh shit, it was. Yeah.

Robb: I barely even listened to that cuz I was so into fucking Have Mercy.

Jus Rus: Oh, that song's, that song's so great, man. Um, and, and, uh, yeah, I could talk about their, it's so interesting cuz you feel like you're the only one who kind of cares about lore of certain bands, and it's cool to hear people also care about it.

Robb: Um, no, yeah, hell yeah, because that was, that was my band. Like, the town I grew up in, in Grand Prairie, in Canada, where I went to school, like, I, like, it's like a running joke where I'm like, Gaslight Anthem owe me money because I— every person in town that knew the Gaslight Anthem was because of me. It was just like, I was so obsessed. That was my fucking band. I was so— it was like Gaslight and Against Me. Those were my bands.

Jus Rus: Do you think there's a thing with, like— oh, and Against Me for sure. Do you think there's a thing with, uh, music nerds and Gaslight Anthem. Like, there's, there's artists, artists, and you're a musician as well. So there's like, and I think that that's a thing too.

Robb: I, I think so too, because I look back and it's like, to me, like, when I first heard the Gaslight Anthem, I thought the Gaslight Anthem were going to be the fucking Foo Fighters. Like, I thought they were going to be the biggest band on the fucking planet, and it didn't happen. And in hindsight, I think the thing is like, they didn't have that single. Which like, yeah, no, us music nerds, we're like, these are great albums. It's a perfect fucking record. These references to the Counting Crows, Tom Petty, Bruce, blah, blah, blah. And then it's like, but they didn't have that radio hit and you need that fucking radio hit. Like, like, like as big as the Black Keys were in the fucking early 2010s, that should have been the Gaslight Anthem. But the Gaslight Anthem didn't have a fucking Gold on the Ceiling or whatever. Yeah, Lonely Boy. They didn't have those songs.

Jus Rus: I was thinking the same thing. Yeah. And they— and 45, I think, was not— I remember 45 just started getting a lot of play on the radio stations because like then they signed with Atlantic and Atlantic was like, this is the single. But I remember a lot of people around here being like, at least with like 104.5 and the radio stations here being like, I fucking hate that song. Like, stop playing that song. I can't listen to this guy's voice. And I went to a show, a festival where they were the— a mini festival where they were the headliner that the radio station put on. But like Walk the Moon was there and Andrew McMahon was there and like no one was like excited for them. I was, but everyone was so hyped up to see Walk the Moon and Andrew McMahon and the Cold War Kids, and then they were the headliner and then everyone kind of left.

Robb: That's so weird. Like, I always think it's this thing where things are like, I have this theory, the McRib theory, where it's basically like bands, you know, like bands, it's like supply and demand and like scarcity. Bands need to go away for a while. And I think the Gaslight Anthem were so consistent there for a while. And there wasn't like, what is that? That's Handwritten. Handwritten, I think, is a good record, but it doesn't, it doesn't feel, it doesn't feel as special kind of thing. And yeah, 45, like I didn't, I didn't care for 45 much either. Like of their singles, that's one of my least favorites. But yeah, it was, it was just, I really, I really just think that band kind of like dropped the ball somehow. I don't, I don't even, even things like the single choice there, like Here Comes My Man is on that record. Here Comes My Man would have been a fucking incredible single, I think. Like, it's this fucking beautiful, like, '50s sha-la-la-la bullshit going on in there. Like, it's magical.

Jus Rus: But like, I love that song.

Robb: They're like, we got it. We got to do the Gaslight anthem song first. Same thing with Get Hurt. When Get Hurt comes out, Rollin' and Tumblin' is the single. And it's like, this is, this is just stereotypical Gaslight. This isn't a single.

Jus Rus: Yeah, I completely agree with that. Um, I didn't think that I, I, I agree with all those takes. I think it could have been, I think Dark Places could have been a single if they like radioed it up a little bit too. Yeah, I, I'm, I'm really just fascinated by them and how they, uh, they fell out and all of that happened when I was in high school and in early college and I didn't really have a lot of people to talk to, uh, about, about it with. Um, And then he does like a, he does a postmortem interview on somebody's podcast. One of the guys, I forget what podcast it was, but they talk like most of the podcast is just them talking about Pitchfork's bad Get Hurt review. And he seems to have a lot to say about it. And I always, I think that was like a weird thing too. Yeah.

Robb: I, you talk about Bruce movie. To tie it all in, to wrap it up fucking almost perfectly.

Jus Rus: Yeah.

Robb: The Bruce movie is about therapy. I think Brian Fallon needed therapy very badly at this point because it's the same thing. Like, like, like Amanda's at Warped Tour right now and they had Travie McCoy yesterday and I wanted— it was, it was like, you know, in an hour, an hour-long interview here, we can like actually talk about things and kind of like, you know, but like they had 10 minutes with Travie. But like what I want to ask is like, yo, Same thing with Gaslight, kind of thing, where it's like you were really on top of the world and you kind of fucked it up for yourself. You know, Travi from Gym Class was like, had drug problems, you know, and it's kind of like, and then you go away and you get a chance to do it again. Where same with, you know, Gaslight now, it's like, do you like, there's got to be like a different level of appreciation. Like, do you appreciate it more now? Kind of thing, you know, like I think the Gaslight Anthem guys do.

Jus Rus: Yeah, I think they do. And I, I hope that Brian doesn't see this because I, there's like a non-zero percent chance that I play Dave Hawes's festival next year. Non-zero.

Robb: Brian has definitely seen, Brian has seen many of our, Brian has liked many of our clips.

Jus Rus: No way.

Robb: Brian may see this. I apologize.

Jus Rus: Oh, fuck.

Robb: He doesn't answer my fucking DMs, but he's seen this.

Jus Rus: Brian, I, there's like a, in the hierarchy of your fans, I'm a top 100. I can guarantee that I'm a top 100 fan of yours and I've paid you a lot of money over the years. In case you ever see this, I think you did go to therapy. I think you're a wonderful songwriter and dad now. And like, I really, really— so don't pay attention to any of this. I'll promote your new album.

Robb: No, it's the bands. I will. It's like a running thing. The bands I will talk the most shit about are the ones I love. Like, I don't—

Jus Rus: I won't really talk shit about them. You know, it's—

Robb: yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, no one hates Alkaline Trio and Blink-182 and like, like no one will shit on like The Menzingers, some of it, was true more than me kind of thing. But it's because like I love these records, I love these bands, even the ones that I say aren't good, I still enjoy them, you know?

Jus Rus: Absolutely. And Brian, and Brian has a Lori McKenna feature on the new album, which is like, feels like it was made specifically for me because, uh, she's my, one of my all-time favorite songwriters. She works, she's in Nashville. She wrote, um, Humble and Kind. And, um, what did she write also? Girl Crush. Um, she has a ton of great of her own records. Yeah, but she's written for a ton of really, uh, famous people, and she's become her own institution in a way of a writer. So I'm very excited about that.

Robb: Isn't Brandon Flowers on the record too?

Jus Rus: Brandon Flowers is also on the record, who is like— who could have also been a Springsteen heir. And I thought that— and I was going to go into this with Enigma. And they were—

Robb: you want to talk about— they're the same.

Jus Rus: And they were the same band.

Robb: They're the same fucking thing, Justin.

Jus Rus: They are. But like, what was— were two records.

Robb: The first two records are the best thing on the fucking— like that existed. And then like— and then Spaceman is okay. And then like Battleborn. And it's just like— like I was— I was— and every Killer record always has like one single or one song where I'm just like, man, this is the best American rock band.

Jus Rus: Oh, dude, we can fight over this. Like, they're like, um, we're depending on the Mirage. They did come back. Imploding the Mirage, I fucking love. And then I love their Nebraska album. Those two albums were like, I was like, dude, they're so fucking back. They're so back after those two albums. Like, I like, like that.

Robb: Caution, Caution is like kind of, those are like, those, those are like just, those are like Jus Rus songs. Same thing where it's like this, like just this pure fucking rock and roll, like Like, yeah. Ah, yeah.

Jus Rus: That's like the blueprint in my, in my brain is like, and I wore this shirt and come on here, but, uh, but that's like the blueprint on my brain subconsciously is like that. And I guess Gin Blossoms too, cuz that's my most frequent comparison I get is that.

Robb: That's funny. Gin Blossoms are one of those bands too that I feel like they have, they have benefited so much from like time passing to where like, yeah, they are like disposable '90s radio rock and now we all realize like, oh no. The Gin Blossoms fucking rip.

Jus Rus: I think there's two things, and like, this might be controver— yeah, I think there's two things to becoming magical and becoming a band is, and it's like, I think you need to be of the moment and you need to have songs. And my hot take is like, that's the only reason Geese is big is because they have both of those things. Because Geese's sound is of the moment. But then you need good songs also. And that's what brings the normies in.

Robb: You need good songs actually to have people hang around.

Jus Rus: Yes, that's what brings the normies in. And I think that I'm not cool enough to appreciate all these like hipster bands, but like I love Geese because the songs are good and that's why I stick around, I think, you know?

Robb: Yeah, I think there's like a level of like, I think like, 'cause like we're music nerds. Most of the people I talk to on here are fucking music nerds. Like we don't really exist in the same kind of like the average like when I watch a movie, I'm throwing on a movie to like entertain me and to laugh and to be distracted. That's how most people treat music, you know, it's some shit they're doing while they vacuum their house and like, yeah, Geese is like the coolest fucking band, but there's tons of cool fucking bands. Like there's always a new cool band like that. But to get people to stick around, you need to have like a couple fucking songs that like people are fucking humming in their head. Like even like, like before Geese really blew up, like I feel like last year Cameron Winter from Geese had like a whole fucking moment where everyone was obsessed with that record. And I didn't love the record. I didn't think there— I didn't think there was like those kinds of songs on there. And with Geese, it's like, yeah, this isn't for me, but like, okay, that's a fucking hook that bangs. That's good.

Jus Rus: Like, you weren't into— you weren't into Drinking Age?

Robb: Yeah, right. Didn't do it for me.

Jus Rus: Oh my God. Didn't do it for me. Song rules.

Robb: Yeah, I think I also— it's also like everything is seasonal for me. If it's not the right season for an album, I'll listen to it and it won't like, you know, like if it's too sunny out, like it's like, this album isn't for right now.

Jus Rus: Totally.

Robb: It's like, like, like, people send us stuff and I'm like, like, have you listened to it yet? I'm like, you want me to be in a certain mood to listen to your record? Trust me. Like, otherwise I'm just going to, like, turn it off 2 songs in and put on a YouTube video. Not even because I don't like it. It's just like my brain's not in that mode right now. Like, yeah, let it be like 7 p.m. and like, let me have a glass of wine or something and start pacing around and then put on the record.

Jus Rus: That's a great call. I'm kind of the same way. And because then I always like Whenever I hear the record every subsequent time, I always remember where I was when I heard it the first time. So I always like, yeah, yeah. So just on the drive to Allentown.

Robb: I was in the shower when I listened to your EP for the first time, actually. I remember you sent it to me.

Jus Rus: Awesome.

Robb: And I put it— I was getting in the shower and I put it on.

Jus Rus: So nice.

Robb: My first time listening to you, I was naked as shit, bro. I apologize.

Jus Rus: That's great. No, but my record smells like whatever body wash you use, which is great. You know, it's— you think back to it, body wash, that's, that's even better. That I, I need to be a little bit cool and loose with it and not so like white-knuckly music. So that's nice. Sick.

Robb: Um, before, before I let you go, yeah, what is the new— what is the Mount Rushmore of Philly bands?

Jus Rus: Uh, to— I think there's a general one and I think there's mine. The general one would be Um, Hall and Oates, Hall and Oates, Dr. Dogg. Um, uh, I think I would put the Dead Milkmen on there. Uh, and like, I'm not gonna say Bruce because he's not directly there. I would put maybe like, because we're talking about like bands specifically, I guess I would say like, oh, I, I can't, I'm gonna get this wrong cuz I'm, I, I can't get this off the top of my head. Mine, mine are, uh, oh, and The Roots. The Roots would be 4. That had—

Robb: it's funny you said The Roots cuz I was gonna say Boyz II Men, but I was like, I don't know if that fits in here.

Jus Rus: But like, yeah, it's interesting. I, I think I would also maybe put War on Drugs ahead of the Dead Milkmen. My, my personal one would be The Menzingers, Wonder Years, Alex G, and Dead Milkmen.

Robb: I've never listened to Alex G. I've never heard a single fucking song.

Jus Rus: Oh my God. Alex G is so weird. Wait, wait, no, no, no.

Robb: I'm thinking, am I thinking of Alex Warren? Is that a different guy?

Jus Rus: Different guy. Alex G is—

Robb: I've never heard Alex Warren.

Jus Rus: Yeah. Actually, no, I would throw Modern Baseball in there ahead of Oh shit. Modern Baseball, Alex G. Well, he's a singer-songwriter, so I'll do Modern Baseball, Wonder Years, Menzingers, and The War on Drugs for my 4.

Robb: It's pretty livable.

Jus Rus: What, what do you, do you, do you have a different one off the top of your head?

Robb: For Philly? I think that's, I think that's fair. Shit, I'm trying to— I can't think of who else I would put in that above them.

Jus Rus: Like, yeah, who is—

Robb: because I feel like too, it's like same thing where like when I was in Philly, when I was there, when it was all covered in trash, I posted a video about like the Menzingers, you know, I'm in Philly, blah, blah, blah. And the amount of motherfuckers that came in my comments being like, actually they're from Scranton. I'm like, brother, I'm from LA. The fact that I'm not in Pittsburgh calling fucking Pittsburgh Philadelphia is enough, you know, like be happy I'm close.

Jus Rus: Well, they, they like, that's from people who probably rep Scranton and get upset about, but they also live here now. Like, come on. Yeah. Like get over it. I don't know. And they, and they kind of make the whole thing like we're the Pennsylvania band. I'm like, that's a good, I like that you did that. And that's a good way to do it. By that same logic, that same logic, like, the Wonder Years are from Lansdale, which is a suburb that's about 40 minutes away, and like no one gives them shit, as I guess it's not a distinct place of a distinct personality, I guess. But still.

Robb: And I think the Wonder Years, like, I don't associate the Wonder Years with where they're from as strongly as I do the Menzingers. And I think that because the Wonder Years are like slightly poppier and have like a little more of a poppier crowd, the Menzingers like kind of have more of that like bearded dude flannel rocking a beer crowd.

Jus Rus: Yeah.

Robb: Who are like a little more true, like punk rock, blue collar at their core where they're like, oh yeah, different vibe.

Jus Rus: The people I was disappointed to see when I went to the Gaslight reunion show thinking I would go back when I was 22 and thinking about I'm going to go back to the Gaslight show I went to when I was 15 and it was a mosh pit the whole time and I was like, I want, I want that again. And it just wasn't. It was like everybody was a bit older than me and had aged out of it.

Robb: People are getting old.

Jus Rus: Yeah.

Robb: I was gonna say, yeah, it's, it's funny seeing like the bands from that, like the, the crowds have gotten so much tamer as everyone is like 38 now.

Jus Rus: Yep. Uh, people set up lawn chairs. Um, but anyway, I actually gotta get going.

Robb: Um, yeah, no, of course.

Jus Rus: So any more things wrapping up?

Robb: I appreciate you joining me.

Jus Rus: Thank you so much for having me. Uh, I know it's been, uh, we've been talking about it for a while, so I really appreciate it.

Robb: And I'm happy it worked out. Our schedule has been— is like literally jam-packed to like September. I was like waiting for someone to cancel and then I was like, they're going to be gone all weekend. I'm going to be fucking bored. Like, I'm going to feel like I'm going to have FOMO. Like, as I'm interviewing you right now, they just interviewed Saturdays and Hawthorne Heights. And when I said I had to text, Amanda texted me. She's like, Amanda's like, Amanda's like, I just talked to Alan from Arms Length. Mitch from Thoughts on Bullying introduced us. Alan wants to come on the show.

Jus Rus: I'm like, That's amazing.

Robb: Arms length.

Jus Rus: Yeah.

Robb: What the— I'm like, yeah, like my first solo interview was halftime show. She had fucking Sleeping with Sirens and Gym Class Heroes yesterday. I'm like, fuck you guys. Oh, I thought I wasn't going to have any fun. I was like, I don't want to. I was like, I don't want to go to fucking Warped Tour. It's too hot. A bunch of cornballs. And now I'm just like, oh, fuck, they're having so much fun. Like, fuck. Like, I feel like the fucking— I'm Steven Glansberg now.

Jus Rus: Yeah.